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May 6, 2025
Climate change has thrown the sports world a massive curveball. Rising temperatures and extreme weather events pose a threat to athletes in all seasons and settings, from mountain skiers to ocean surfers. Sport ecologist Madeleine Orr joined Daniel and Alison on The Climate Conversation to talk about her book, Warming Up: How Climate Change is Changing Sport. She also shared tactics for the industry to protect athletes and fans while reducing its environmental impact.
Show notes:
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About this Podcast:
With all the depressing climate news out there, it’s sometimes hard to see progress. The Climate Conversation cuts through the noise and presents you with relevant climate change solutions happening on the Hill and in communities around the United States.
Twice a month, join Environmental and Energy Study Institute staff members as they interview environmental, energy, and policy experts on practical, on-the-ground work that communities, companies, and governments are doing to address climate change.
Whether you want to learn more about the solutions to climate change, are an expert in environmental issues, or are a policy professional, this podcast is for you.
Episode Transcript:
Daniel Bresette: Hello and welcome to The Climate Conversation. I'm Dan Bresette, president of the Environmental and Energy Study Institute.
Alison Davis: And I'm his co-host, Alison Davis, and I'm really excited to jump right into today's episode. We're taking a quick break from federal policy for a book discussion with author Madeleine Orr. Her book, Warming Up: How Climate Change is Changing Sport, compiles accounts of how the sports world is being affected by the climate crisis. Maddy also provides insights about what the industry can do to protect athletes and fans while reducing its environmental impact.
Dan: Madeleine is the founder of The Sport Ecology Group and an assistant professor of Sport Ecology at the University of Toronto. Before that, she was a lecturer at Loughborough University London, where she developed the world's first Masters program in Sport and Sustainability. Maddy's research focuses on vulnerability and resilience at the organizational and community levels. In 2021 she earned a spot on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list in sports. She has a PhD in Kinesiology (with an emphasis on sports management) from the University of Minnesota, and also holds Masters degrees in International Event Management from the University of Brighton and Natural Resource Science and Management from the University of Minnesota. Maddy, welcome to the show!
Madeleine Orr: Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
Dan: Great book, by the way, great balance between easy-to-read, but also quite substantive, and so I hope everyone will take a moment to check it out. It’s really good. Thank you so much for being here. I'd like to start by giving you a chance to describe your early career and how you kind of started your journey. You open the book with an account of your time working in the French Alps, and unfortunately, that included a pretty bad-sounding ski injury. How did that experience shape your professional interest in sports ecology?
Maddy: Yeah, it's a good question. So I started my education in international development and economics. And it was so much doom and gloom, Daniel, I can't even tell you like it was so depressing to hear it. And then as I moved through that and was thinking about my next steps, I was like, “I need a break. I need a minute.” And I went to France thinking, like, “I'm gonna go be a ski bum.” And I talk about it in the book, but like, that was not at all what it turned out to be. Like, yes, there was skiing that was happening, but the conditions were awful. There was very little snow, and that meant that injuries went up because people were being funneled onto like the same three runs, and so there were more collisions, more injuries. But also, because artificial snow is higher ice content than natural snow, it becomes a harder surface to fall on. And so when people do fall or get into that collision, or take that turn too tight, they're more likely to get injured. And then when the actual snow did come, I thought, “Okay, great. Like, those problems are gone. Finally, like, this is going to be so much better.” And it turned out that getting a whole lot of snow all in one shot was awful also, for a whole different slate of reasons, but largely because they started kicking off avalanches. And tragically, we lost some kids at a nearby resort. And it was a huge wake-up call for the whole community. People were getting injured from, like, shifts in the snow pack, and I was one of them. I was like, walking around this small town that was already impacted from low tourism, and people were losing their jobs. And now we're, like, hearing in the news about kids passing away, and I've got this whole leg brace on that is weighing me down as a literal reminder of how awful this is. And it was one of those, like, “once you see it, you can't unsee it” situations. And I started thinking through the implications of climate change, not just for the future of skiing. Like, if this were to repeat over and over every year, this would be catastrophic to the sector, but it would also impact every other part of sport. It wouldn't just be winter sports. So it would be all your outdoor sports, your summer sports, mountain sports, water sports, and that the knock-on effects of that would be huge, just in terms of, like, what people do for fun, but also their mental health, their well being. Like, it's an activity outlet. It's how people come together. It's a social connector. It's a tourism juggernaut in tons of communities around the world. So thinking through that, over those few months when I was healing from that injury and ahead of going into grad school again for a PhD, I just thought, “Okay, like there's something to this. We probably have to tease out what it is.” And that's what kick started my career was just, there's a big problem here. It's going to impact everything and everyone in the sports world. Let's dig in and figure out what that means.
Dan: It's a really interesting nexus of two issues. One, sports are important to a lot of people. I'm a sports fan, and when the Giants beat the Patriots the first time, it was a rough couple weeks. But also, you know, doesn't come anywhere near to the gravity of climate impacts and things like that. And in your book, you talk about how you receive criticism for studying the intersection of climate and sports. And some of those critics say, “Well, why are you focusing on this combination of issues rather than some of these other more urgent impacts of climate change?” But why do you think sports is a worthwhile way to study climate impacts?
Maddy: So I have a couple answers to that. The first one is that most people in the part of the world that I happen to live in—so I live in Toronto, but I would characterize all of North America with this kind of broad brush of—the majority of us are not farmers and fishers and forestry folks and like, really deeply connected to the land in the way that we might have been in previous generations. And because of that, most folks, their close connection to the outdoors is riding their bike to work or going to their kids soccer game or going on that camping trip or whatever, and it ends up being your sport, physical activity, and play is your invitation outside. That's how people connect to the outdoors. It's what builds those relationships with the places they live and love. And so in my view, that makes for a pretty apt environment to have a conversation about protecting those spaces. But the other part of it is, most people have a relationship to sport in a way that they don't have a relationship to polar bears in the Arctic or far away communities that are being impacted by disaster. And while I don't propose that sport is more important than lives and livelihoods being lost—it's not, I will concede that point off the top—it is a connector in a way that most things are. It's kind of like having a shared language across cultures, across political views. And this becomes really important in a moment like now, where things feel very polarized, very tense, and finding ways to connect with people on shared ground—like we love the Celtics or whatever—is important and is an avenue to have conversations that otherwise you might not have. So if we can talk about climate change in the context of sports, we might attract people to a conversation who otherwise would absolutely disengage from that, because on its face it looks either too sciencey or too political or too complicated. But when it comes to a simple piece of, like, “Let's make sure our kids have a safe place to play,” people easily get along on that one and so it becomes kind of an easy watering-hole type question.
Dan: So the idea of bringing communities together, sports absolutely do that. It's great fun when your team is winning, and you do sense that camaraderie with perfect strangers, those knowing glances after a big win with complete strangers. It's really fun. But it also seems to me that communities benefit in maybe some other ways of having sports teams, especially sports teams that make good decisions on sustainability. How could a community potentially benefit from a relationship with a sports team that, you know, is committed to doing the right thing in terms of sustainability and reducing waste and other things like that?
Maddy: Yeah, in the sports world, we have a saying that sports can bring stadium-sized solutions to the fore, right? And that looks like a range of things. But if you consider that in any given small American college town, for example, the sports facilities on that campus are probably the biggest pull for water and energy of any individual buildings, and if they can pioneer and get it right, that sends a really cool message to the whole community that you can also pioneer and get this right in your own home, in your own school, and whatever that is. It also becomes a bit of a, like, there's an influential domino effect that sports can activate, because sport organizations, in particular at pro and elite levels, have so much buy-in from so many people. And I talk about this in the book, but like every industry is involved in sponsoring sports, because it has been selling us everything from our Gatorade to our cereal to our shoes for 100 years. And so why can't it sell whatever other item, right? Like whether it's a flight or a charity project. And I think that we can use that same power to sell good ideas on climate change as well. And so I think there's opportunity for that. I think it's already working. We know it works. So there's kind of, there's two parts, like, there's the we can bring groups along for the ride. Like, when sports changes their narrative and demands their partners and sponsors, and everyone does it with them, it kind of back-channels and makes these organizations actually do better. But then it also has a demonstration effect for all the fans that you can be a part of this tune. And it doesn't have to be political. We don't have to get into a finger pointing game of whose fault this is we can just get along with: Who's going to help us fix it? And like I say it many, many times, with climate action as a team sport, there is no some of us winning and some of us losing on this. There is just, everybody has to win. That's the only outcome that's acceptable. And so how do we make that happen?
Alison: So your story about your experience skiing in the French Alps starts to touch on this next question a little bit, but climate change pretty directly impacts athletes, and in various ways that are pretty serious. These situations can sometimes result in injury or even death. The main example for the United States is probably heat waves. So I would love to hear any advice that you have for athletes, especially if they're competing at an elite level and they're dealing with this culture of toughness. How can they speak out about dangerous conditions or especially if maybe they're not feeling very well?
Maddy: Yeah, and this is such a good question, because you hit the nail on the head, just in the way you framed it up. Sports have this really dominant idea around macho participation and, like, tough it out, and no pain no gain. And, like, I mean, anyone who's played a sport has probably heard a coach say those things. And I think there's something really nefarious about that, not because I think the coaches mean anything by it, like in a bad way. But I think, without even trying to be malicious, that's putting people in a really tough spot if they are experiencing pain, that they won't feel comfortable bringing that forward. And we know that from things like concussion, right. From other spaces that are not necessarily climate related, but like, we know that especially boys and men, are likely to hide and downplay injury and harm in order to preserve their playing opportunities, because there's this idea that, if you were to say to the coach, “I don't feel well,” they're not going to play you. And to these kids' credit, they're right in a lot of cases, that's exactly how it works. So there's a narrative shift that has to happen around, we need sports to be fun and safe, and you can't have “competitive” unless it's fun and safe like these are the baseline criteria that we need. And so when it comes to climate change, we're looking at hazards that may not be super obvious to the naked eye. It looks like extreme heat impacting a person's body when they're playing, and different bodies are going to handle that differently. You can't necessarily pick out who's going to be injured by that just by looking at people. Generally, like, the bigger the body, the more impacted, which is why we see so much in football. Also, the more equipment you're wearing, the less opportunity you have to release heat from your body. So again, there's these confounding variables that make football players particularly at risk, and the other one is how long the exposure is. So sports like tennis or marathon or cycling, when you're competing and out there for long periods of time without a break, that's also where you're going to start to see these impacts. But the problem with them, generally, is that the signs are very few, the symptoms are many, meaning you won't see it. Athletes have to tell you, this is how I feel. And if they don't feel comfortable telling a coach, “I don't feel well,” then the whole thing is a house of cards that falls apart. So heat is, you know, initially it's going to look like sweating. It's going to look like being short of breath. You might feel a little dizzy as it gets worse, if you don't cool down, you could start to feel cramping. You could start to lose your cognitive ability a little bit, so your capacity to concentrate. And then as things worsen, even further from there, if you don't cool down, within about half an hour, we could be at catastrophic impacts. We have seen people die on football fields of this and that exertional heat stroke, which is like the worst case scenario, basically what's happening is your body is melting from the inside. And it sounds awful and it is, and it's uncomfortable, and it's like you can become so delirious in the moment that you won't know what's going on. But often this is where people faint or have major seizure events, because basically the lining that's holding their internal organs is falling apart because it is sending all the available blood away to the skin to release heat. So they're sending all those good nutrients out, and it allows that really important lining of those key internal organs to start to fail, and we see stroke events. So again, the signs are few, the symptoms are many. You have to be able to talk about it. If you can't talk about it. If you can't talk about it, it doesn't get solved. And the same thing with air quality, right? Like we can see if a kid's really hacking it and having a hard time breathing, and possibly because they have an existing condition like asthma or bronchitis, chronic bronchitis. But if you're experiencing issues with your eyes feeling itchy—that's not something the coach is going to notice, necessarily. You have to tell them “my eyes hurt” and in poor conditions, like the coach needs to be ready to hear that and make adjustments. And if the coach doesn't know better, they can't do better. So we all need to be learning about these risks. We all need to be taking care of each other, not just the athletes, but the coaches, the trainers, the parents and everybody else.
Alison: So in your book, you cite that fan travel to and from games amounts to about 80% of emissions associated with sports. And at the same time, you've heard from athletes who want to speak publicly on climate change more than they do, but they also fear being perceived as hypocritical, because there's a lot of travel required of athletes, and a lot of higher profile athletes, they tend to use private jets. So what can be done about travel emissions associated with sports? And in your opinion, what would be the most impactful change?
Maddy: Yeah, it's one of those perfect problems in the sense that, as a fan, it's a really uncomfortable assertion that, like, “Ah, I am the problem.” We don't want to be the problem. We want to fix it. And our intention is probably pretty good in going to these games, I would say a few things. The first one is, the problem is almost never actually the athletes moving around. Even if they're using private jets, they're usually filling those jets so they end up being basically a capacity of like what a first class of a regular flight would be. And then it's kind of like a negligible difference. And if we want sports to continue in the way that they generally currently are, which means like inter-city and international competition, the athletes are gonna have to move around. The part that probably is gonna have to change is, we're gonna have to think about the schedule, so that as athletes go from point A to point B to point C, they go in that order, and then come home, as opposed to point A, and then all the way home, and then point B, and then all the way home, and then point C, all the way home. So for example, if you're New York, or if you're the Patriots, Daniel, for your example, right? If you're the Patriots, like we want you playing New York and then Philly and then Washington, and then coming home, not going to New York, and then home, and then Philly and then home, and then Washington and then home. And if we can get the schedule right, we can really reduce those emissions. But from the fan perspective, the key is: go see your home team at home, because you can get there on the ground. You don't have to fly around to watch them somewhere else. Let the home fans be at home. And this gets really tricky, especially when you get into like the VIPs and the media and all these other people that take up space in these venues. But for the most part, as a fan, the best thing you can do is support your team at home and watch them on TV when they're away.
Alison: Warming Up was published slightly before the Paris Olympic Games, and you expressed a hope for the planned sustainability initiatives, for example, using existing facilities instead of building new ones for the events or adding bus and bike lanes. Upon reflection what they do that went well and what could have been done better in terms of sustainability and environmental impact?
Maddy: Yeah, so Paris—and I was there, I was seven-months pregnant in Paris, it was very hot—but it was like, they achieved a lot, and I think that credit is due to the organizers there for basically doing everything you can do within a poorly designed model, which is to say the Olympics are a tourism spectacle. That's what they are. It's a two-week party. They claimed that close to about 15 million people came to Paris for it. That is a huge, huge impact, like there is no way around that. When people gather in those kinds of numbers, there is no getting around the waste and the consumption and the flights and the everything else. But once you were there on the ground, Paris did a really good job. And so they had everything from bus lanes, bike lanes—you couldn't drive anywhere, everything was done on public transit. They did a really phenomenal job of making sure that, like, water refill stations were available everywhere. Bring your own bottle. That was totally fine, reusable cups, like all of these little things. But when it's a little thing with 15 million people doing it, it makes a huge difference. What I would say, though, is that the model is broken. Like the model of having these events be tourism spectacles is the problem. The way to fix it is to say we're going to go to existing venues. So Paris did that. That's great. We are going to reduce the number of tickets sold internationally and focus on people who are here. And that would mean that you have, you know, your local school kids going to the soccer and to the swimming, and not necessarily Maddy from Canada—like I was working it, but that's kind of the idea, right? Is like, so-and-so from Zimbabwe is not showing up in Paris unless they're an athlete, they're a coach or maybe it's your kid competing, and then, like, yeah, go support your kid, you know, like, I'm not going to tell a parent or a close friend, don't. But the general fan, we can watch from home, and that's probably fine. And by doing that, we can reduce the emissions. And, like, you quoted the number before, but like, almost 80%, that's not nothing. I'll take it and like that would, for me, make it a much more, a much easier to swallow project. And I think this is something that LA is gonna have to grapple with. It's coming to LA next. There was a lot of politicking behind it, LA being put there for 2028 some of the IOC members didn't want it there during a Trump presidency, which is why it didn't get 2024. They thought that could be at the end of a second term, had he gotten a second term after his first term. And now here we are. He will be the sitting president during those Olympics. And that is scary to some of the members internationally, because of border considerations, all these other things. But again, the sustainability solution here is the same solution of keeping people safe. It's, let's just actually make it about LA and about the people in LA supporting the athletes. And if you're a fan or a family member, like, if you're a family member, a close connection, then fine, come support your athletes. But for the most part, we can all watch from home, and that might actually solve some of those political tensions as well. And so I think that there's, you know, not to be saying, like there's silver linings in climate change and really stressful political tension around the world, but like, there could be right now, in the sense that we could solve for some of it at the same time.
Dan: I always think of all those idling cars coming and going. We're lucky here in DC that the best way to get to Nats Park is by metro. The best way to watch the Wizards play is by metro. Football is a little different, it's out there a little bit. But so speaking of idling engines, fossil fuels and sports have an intertwined history. There's a hockey team called the Oilers, there was a football team called the Oilers. There was this report produced by the New Weather Institute that found that fossil fuel companies have invested at least $5.6 billion in sponsorships. Why is the fossil fuel industry so focused on sports?
Maddy: Yeah, it's a great question, and it's also kind of obvious in the sense that it's why we all love sports, right? Like, it's kind of this sexy thing that people like. When you ask someone about sports, generally, the first thing they're going to say is like, “Oh, it's fun.” And the second thing they're going to say is, it's about physical activity, and it's about education, it's about communities, about, like, all of these good values that align with what we in North America, kind of picture as like our collective imagination of what makes us good as nations. It's about teamwork and respect and care and being together and celebrating wins and taking losses with grace. These are all the reasons that moms and dads put their kids in sports, right? These are the same reasons that oil wants to be invested, because they want oil associated with all those good values that sports represent. And this is why they also support things like education institutions and the arts. You'll see them anywhere that we kind of find cross-political engagement, where we find community togetherness, you will find oil. And they've been there for a very long time. The pioneers of the sponsorship-in-sport model was oil. And this is kind of a weird piece that is tricky to grapple with, and not exactly obvious, but oil is very much behind, kind of the founding of the NFL. Oil is behind many of the biggest events, including the Super Bowl in North America. They were some of the earliest supporters of even, like the International Olympic Committees, expansion projects, and it's really important that we kind of thread that line, because it has been a project from the start by oil lobbyists to greenwash their image, to help kind of hide the fact that maybe they're not a credible partner in developing some of these values that we're espousing, and actually they're trying to do something very different. But if they hide all of that behind the glitz and glam of an Olympic Games or a Super Bowl, then maybe people won't notice. So that's been the plan since the jump. They've been doing it for over 100 years—very successfully, I might add, like credit to them for pioneering some really nefarious communication strategies. But sport has been very much where that's played out, and it still is. And as we start to see, especially arts institutions and universities move away from oil money, so we're starting to see divestment campaigns across a number of campuses, including places like Harvard and Columbia and University of California system. We're seeing arts institutions like the British Museum and several others like starting to move away from those partnerships. As that happens, sport is kind of this last vanguard of oil money, and not just from North American oil companies and others, but like we're really starting to see that come out of the Gulf as well. And it's really interesting to see how that narrative is playing out, and how many people are starting to get very concerned about that.
Dan: And I think when I think of sports sponsorships, I mean, the ones that I think of are motorsports, right, like cars are literally emblazoned with logos, and not just fossil fuel companies. I mean, there are cars that have, you know, very famous company logos on it. So, yeah, that's very interesting.
Maddy: I mean, we have a model for this, right? In the 1990s and we saw tobacco get kicked out of sports. And it wasn't because sports were like, “Oh, out of the goodness of our heart, we don't want tobacco anymore.” It was that there was some very, very smart lawyers and mothers and doctors groups and others who kind of said, “Wait a second, why are we promoting this through sport where our kids are?” And they went and got it legislated. And it took a very long time. Initially, it was legislated out of TV advertisements and billboards and kind of the classic advertising, and sports sponsorship became the loophole. And so it took an extra three or four years to close that loophole, and it's almost completely closed, not completely, but almost. So you'll see, like, Marlboro on an F1 car, but you won't see it really anywhere else. And so yeah, to your point of motor sport, like, that's where we kind of see it bright and shiny, but it is everywhere.
Alison: On a side note, I love how you talked to Amy Westervelt about this issue. I highly recommend her podcast Drilled to everybody after this podcast, of course. But she's done some really fantastic work on fossil fuel advertising and sort of these nefarious tactics with communities and up to the national level. But to sort of wrap it up on a more fun note, I wanted to ask, as a baseball fan, I was really interested in this report that came out of Dartmouth in 2023 which found that over 500 home runs since 2010 can be attributed to climate change, because rising temperatures make the air less dense, and so there's less drag on the baseballs. So that made me wonder, what is the most surprising effect of climate change that you've come across in your research?
Maddy: Oh, it's such a good question. There's so many fun ones. So like, a ball moves faster when it's hot out, which means that we could see more touchdowns. We could see more goals in soccer. That's really kind of a fun thing to think through. Although when you get into temperature ranges that that becomes a thing, we're also worried about people's health. So there's kind of like a double-edge sword there. There's some interesting pieces coming out of the surfing world, if anyone is interested in surfing, where they're observing that some of the surf breaks, the most famous ones around the world, are shifting and changing. And in some cases, they're changing to actually be safer for the beginner-intermediate surfer. So while that might be a loss to like the super elite surfers who, like, are absolute rock stars, and they're out there every day and they're professionals, it does make it way more accessible to the average people just living in those communities who want to learn to surf or take their kids out. And that's really, really cool, in terms of just opening up opportunities for people to learn something new. We're starting to see a lot of athletes speaking about this, and that, for me, is like the number one coolest thing is to hear someone like Chris Paul in the NBA—people call him point God—coming into the green sports sector, like he's now on the board of Green Sports Alliance. He's advocating that we consider this, and largely because his kids are asking him to do it. And that's a very common narrative we hear as parents, like, “do something,” and so to see athletes stepping up and doing something is really cool. And that's something that is starting to kind of permeate the general narrative around sports right now, where you're hearing the Serena Williams and LeBron James types talking about the wildfires in California and how it's impacting their families. And you know, how do we all take care of each other? And that's exactly the narrative it needs to be. We're all in the same storm—we're in very different boats, but we're in the same storm. Like, how do we take care of each other? How do we help each other out? And to see that coming out of people like Serena Williams, LeBron, James, etc, like, is hugely inspiring.
Dan: This was so much fun, Maddy, thank you so much for joining us today. Best of luck, and really appreciate the chance to talk with you and learn from you. And again, totally recommend this book, really fun read.
Maddy: Thanks so much! Appreciate it.
Dan: Well, Alison, thank you so much for inviting Maddy to join us on the podcast. What a fun and interesting conversation. I like the idea you know that she was talking about, about how things bring people together and raise awareness. And I feel like there's just a ton of potential. People really do look up to athletes. Kids look up to athletes. Adults do too, even though, in some cases, they're younger. But I feel like there's a huge amount of potential for sports teams to pick up the mantle, to do the right thing, to set a good example. And knowing what I know about a lot of these sort of sustainability options and things like renewable energy and energy efficiency, it also is really good for the bottom line. And at the end of the day, sports is a business, and it seems to me like there's some really strong alignment between doing what's right for the business, right for the planet, right for the community, and as we talked about, right for the athletes themselves, who are the ones out there grinding and grateful every day in the hot sun, or, you know, toughing it out on the slopes of the French Alps.
Alison: Yeah, I love these book discussions. I'm excited to keep doing them, and I highly recommend Warming Up to all our listeners. I loved what Maddie was saying in how she described sports as like a cross cultural language. You know, I think that this notion of athletes using private jets is kind of like a trendy topic that people like to get a little bit riled up about. But when you think about the good that comes from these international competitions and like, people coming together, and it can become a platform where we do talk about climate issues, I think that it's really cool to have all these opportunities for international competitions. And I hope that coaches will learn from some of maddie's work about like, how you really need to listen to athletes about how they're feeling, because heat, especially has a lot of symptoms, but not a lot of signs, and so this sort of hyper-macho culture of toughness that's especially prevalent at the professional level, it can be really dangerous. You know, there's something to be said for hard work, but you also have to listen to the athletes when they say that they're not well.
Dan: When she mentioned that, I know we were talking about football and stuff, but kind of the opposite of some of the things we talked about. But I always think about in the NFL, especially like the linemen who go sleeveless, and it's like 20 below zero, and you could just tell that they're really cold and they're, they're just too tough to be cold. And I always think like, I don't that's, I don't think I could do that. I think I would need sleeves.
Alison: Oh yeah, no, absolutely not. And I'm really excited for baseball season. I sometimes will think about, like, on those hot days, you know, when it's really, really warm outside, but then they still have to wear those long-sleeved uniforms. I'm sure it's necessary, because they have to slide and stuff, but it just looks so uncomfortable. If you want to learn more about EESI’s work on climate change impacts, head to our website at eesi.org. Also, follow us on social media @eesionline for all of our recent updates. The Climate Conversation is published as a supplement to our bi-weekly newsletter, Climate Change Solutions. Go to eesi.org/signup to subscribe. Thanks for joining us and see you next time!
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