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March 26, 2024
In our second Congressional interview on The Climate Conversation, Dan and Alison speak with Rep. Jennifer McClellan (D-Va.) about her fight for climate resilience and environmental justice in the Commonwealth and across the country. Rep. McClellan succeeded A. Donald McEachin in the U.S. House of Representatives in 2023, making her the first Black woman representing Virginia in Congress. The conversation also includes an overview of some on-the-ground work happening in the state by Annette Osso of Resilient Virginia.
Show notes:
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With all the depressing climate news out there, it’s sometimes hard to see progress. The Climate Conversation cuts through the noise and presents you with relevant climate change solutions happening on the Hill and in communities around the United States.
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Episode Transcript:
Dan Bresette: Hello and welcome to The Climate Conversation. I'm Dan Bresette, president of the Environmental and Energy Study Institute. And with me is my co-host, Alison Davis. Hey, Alison, how's it going?
Alison Davis: Hey, Dan, it is such a joy to be here today. I am so excited to share our interview with Representative Jennifer McClellan, who is the first black woman elected to Congress from my home state of Virginia. Representative McClellan succeeded the late Donald McEachin, another true champion for Virginia's fourth district.
Dan: That's right, Alison. Representative McClellan was kind enough to speak with us about her approach to climate issues with a focus on the importance of environmental justice for increasing resilience in Virginia. This is actually our second interview with a member of Congress on The Climate Conversation. Last year at the end of season five, Alison and I were joined by Representative Ro Khanna of California to discuss how the CHIPS and Science Act contributes to climate policy. The link to that episode will be in the show notes for anyone who wants to take a listen or free listen.
Alison: Virginia is a fascinating case study when it comes to climate resilience because of its unique geographic characteristics. On the east side, you have the Atlantic Ocean feeding into the Chesapeake Bay, and the west side is bordered by the Blue Ridge and Appalachian Mountains hugging the Shenandoah Valley. Across the state you have everything from farmland and beaches to rivers, mountains, and dense urban centers. Before turning it over to the Representative, we'd like to set the stage with a quick look into some of the on-the-ground work happening to prepare communities for some of the biggest climate threats for the Commonwealth.
Annette Osso: We are looking at warmer and wetter climate trends across the state. So on the coastal area, we're also seeing sea level rise, and the new federal projections are looking at up to five feet of sea level rise by 2100.
Alison: That’s Annette Osso, managing director of Resilient Virginia. True to its name, Resilient Virginia is a non-profit organization working to bolster statewide resilience through education and community engagement.
Annette: You do have Hampton Roads, also with the condition that the land is sinking, so there'll be probably even more severe impact. As time goes on here, all parts of the state are being affected by more intense rain and flooding events. This is being interspersed with periods of drought, particularly in the inland areas that is affecting the agricultural production and water availability. The other trend is to warmer winters, but also, of course, hotter summers. And this then affects people's health. And in the agricultural and livestock sectors, again, for the areas that are agricultural, it is affecting that production and the health of not only animals and plants, but also people who are working in the outside environment. There's generally, then, warmer water, which is leading to algal blooms in the Chesapeake Bay, and then changes in the environments for the rivers also. And so the fish population and animal plant populations and the rivers are being affected by that. And I just want to point out that what we saw during COVID was kind of the fast-forward version of what we might see in terms of impact on health, from disasters of various kinds. This happened to be health disaster. But what it also pointed out was disparity in services for communities that are low-income or underserved communities. So it was very clear that there were these disparities, and this has always been there. COVID put an emphasis on that. And then going forward with climate impact, it is something that community planners and health officials need to be aware of. It is, of course, somewhat regional, and what what's going on as far as addressing mitigating the effects of climate change. So coastal areas are really focusing quite a lot on infrastructure adaptation, whether they're using green infrastructure or hard infrastructure, because they have to deal very much immediately with what's happening in their cities. In Norfolk, Virginia Beach, or in the rural areas where there's less development but people's property, which tends to be waterfront, is getting flooded. So they have to deal with, how do you adapt and in some ways, move structures back in rural areas where that's more possible than in urban areas. They're looking at infrastructure adaptations that are essentially barriers and providing areas for the flood water to come in and go out in a way that's not damaging inland. You've got the riverine flooding and extreme storm events, including tornadoes coming through our state, which just you know, you didn't have that many previous times. So there has been an effort to prepare for the flooding, that's going to be more frequent, where you have watershed areas that have been built up. And then these extreme storm events, which then you know, damage houses, buildings, businesses, cut off transportation, etc. You know, it really calls for a more stringent look at hazard mitigation planning, that's going to look at the long term effects of climate impact. We've been working in communities, particularly in the central and southwest part of the state, we've looked at the climate justice equation there. And it's really something that's been addressed in communities now across the state. So if I can, you know, give you a few examples here. Norfolk has started up back with the 100 Resilient Cities, being fortunate to get a grant that created their chief resilience officer position of Richmond, their climate action plan to reduce carbon emissions, and their climate resilience plan to look at adaptation strategies, using the basis of climate equity as a focus. So they created a climate equity index, and they are centering their efforts there on making sure that the neighborhoods that have been neglected basically are getting planning and programmatic attention, and have quite a commitment to community engagement in what they're doing. Just moving west, I will say that Charlottesville and Albemarle County, now, kind of jointly working on their climate action plan, again, carbon reduction, and then their climate resiliency plans. They both have a climate equity aspect to what they're doing. They're just kind of getting going on what that's going to look like, but they are committed to paying attention to that aspect. And then a little further west, is a project we've worked on in Lynchburg, Virginia, that was funded through a federal EPA environmental justice grant to work with neighborhoods inner city, which are largely African American and low-income and then prone to stormwater flooding, and have problems also with the heat island effect, again, that you sometimes see in the inner city areas. So we went through one programmatic cycle of working with the neighborhood's getting them to tell us what they see as the problems, which is very important in kind of engaging community people, and bringing in the city water resources, folks to also be part of the conversation. So we hope to go forward with that on a pending second EPA environmental justice grant further work on building local capacity to both see what they can do to help themselves as neighborhoods, but also be more effective in addressing interaction with the city and regional government, both of which are embarking on resiliency planning efforts. So this is a good opportunity to bring some of the folks that typically are not heard very effectively, you know, to the forefront to encourage them to be involved. Funding is very important. And of course, the new programs under the current administration that has put forth the ability to fund additional efforts is very important. At this time, the National Climate Resilience Framework, I wanted to emphasize that that's important. They've recognized resilience as a priority, one of their priorities, as well as of course, their justice for the initiative that has emphasized Particular attention needs to be paid to working with neighborhoods or communities that are people of color of all kinds and also low low income in general. And the other important thing is rural areas, rural communities. So the good news is NOAA has funded a lot of work in the coastal areas, which is great. And I know in Virginia, they have funding now the regional governments all around the Chesapeake Bay to work on resiliency plans, which are the important groundwork for going forward and the most effective way to do projects to mitigate the impact of climate. What we are not seeing is kind of the parallel funding for inland areas. We've been working a lot with the inland areas of the state, the non-coastal, so we formed actually a regional collaborative alliance to help aggregate some of the messaging and of the importance of basic things that need to be put in place for the rural areas, because they typically don't have the funds themselves, to hire consultants to come in and do resiliency planning exercises, they would need some kind of outside funding to do that. That's something that would be helpful.
Dan: The key to effective deployment of resilience projects like Annette just described is collaboration and coherence across various levels. And as we've said on this show, before climate resilience and environmental justice go hand in hand. Only policies that are informed by the perspective of disadvantaged communities can build equitable support systems, which are fundamental to resilience. And that's why Alison and I were so excited to speak with Representative McClellan, who has already proven herself to be a leading voice on environmental justice issues after just one year in Congress. We hope you enjoy the conversation Alison and I had.
Well, today we're recording our podcast episode from Capitol Hill in the office of representative Jennifer McClellan from the Fourth District of Virginia, and that includes the capital city of Richmond. Representative McClellan is a lifelong Virginia native. She was born in Petersburg and has served the Greater Richmond area in elected office for nearly 20 years. She was first elected to the Virginia House of Delegates in 2005, and served that post until she was elected to the Virginia State Senate in 2017, where she succeeded the late great Representative A. Donald McEachin after his election to the U.S. House. In Congress today, she sits on the House Armed Services Committee and the House science space and Technology Committee. Throughout her 18 sessions in the Virginia General Assembly, Representative McClellan passed over 370 pieces of legislation, including landmark bills to combat climate change. She lives in Richmond with her husband, Dave Mills, and their two children, Jackson and Samantha. Represented McClellan, welcome to The Climate Conversation podcast. We're so happy that you made time to talk with Alison and me today.
Representative Jennifer McClellan: Thank you for having me.
Dan: So I'd like to get started by talking to you or asking you about sort of what your deep roots in Virginia mean to you as a public servant? How did your upbringing and education in Virginia helped shape her approach to issues of climate change and resilience and environmental justice?
Rep. McClellan: So a couple of different ways. You know, I grew up sort of in the country suburbs of the city of Richmond, where I went to high school in Matoaca, there were lots of farms, lots of open space. And I always felt a connection to nature. My father also was a minister, and in my faith, humans are charged with being stewards of God's creation. So I take that very seriously. But I also grew up listening to my parents’ stories of what life was like for them living in the segregated South under Jim Crow, living during the Depression. And I came to understand two things from that. One is that government can either be a force for solving problems and helping people, or it can be a force that oppresses some for the benefit of others, which led to an understanding that government has a responsibility to respond to climate change. But it also taught me how every issue, every government decision, through our country's history has been through a lens that marginalized communities didn't have a voice, whether they were African American communities, whether they were Indigenous communities. And you see that play out in where power plants are sited, where chemical plants are, and now as a public servant, who represents areas like Charles City County and Hopewell, that have some of the poorest health outcomes in the state, and they also happen to have high concentrations of facilities that are impacting the environment and climate change. You start to connect those dots.
Dan: You've been a legislator for a long time here on Capitol Hill, but also back in Richmond, and while you are in the while you're in the Virginia State Senate, you sponsored the Virginia Clean Economy Act. That bill passed in 2020 and was enacted into law. Why was that legislation such a high priority for you? And what are the cons? and the benefits that it's delivering to the people of Virginia today.
Rep. McClellan: Yeah, I mean, it was. It really was transformative for energy policy in Virginia. Not only Virginia, but in the south. It made Virginia the first state in the south to have a 100% clean energy standard that was one of the strongest in the country that has become a model for other states. I mean, immediately after that session, I started hearing from legislators and other states sort of wanting to see how they could replicate it in theirs. So from a policy perspective, when the bill passed, I literally wanted to jump out of my seat and say, “The eagle has landed!” Because number one, it was that hard to get it passed. And number two, it was that transformative. Since then, though, we have you know, still early, but we have begun to see some huge impacts, whether it's a very large utility scale solar farm in Charles City County. We have you know, Lego moved to Virginia moved one of its brickmaking facilities to Chesterfield County, specifically, because of the clean energy policy that we had. They said in their announcement that that was a big reason why they chose Virginia. And we see what's happening off the coast of Virginia Beach with the wind project out there. So each of those in its own right is creating new jobs while addressing climate change and more to come.
Alison: I’d like to talk about the climate threats that are most affecting Virginians specifically. How do you as a member of Congress ensure that effective resilience measures for Virginia are included in federal policy?
Rep. McClellan: Well, a number of ways. I mean, first, making sure that whether it's infrastructure policy or funding, that we are thinking holistically and long term about how are we going to shift our planning, or shift construction and infrastructure projects to match how climate is changing? I think when you think about, whether it's building codes, or standards for bridges, or roads that were designed decades ago, assuming different climate patterns, we need to revisit those. So that's one way, but then it's also little things like, we know climate change is not just going to affect—it's going to affect every policy, because of this kind of second and third effects. You know that as climate changes around the world, it's going to affect migration and immigration patterns, it's going to affect agriculture as land that used to grow one crop won’t be able to grow that crop anymore, or gets flooded. So we need to think through, and in some cases rethink, long-term planning around everything from agriculture to energy generation to transportation planning to evacuation planning.
Alison: You mentioned infrastructure in that. I’d like to expand a little bit. I think that sometimes the IIJA feels almost like old news because it passed a couple of years ago, but still, there’s a lot of details that are just going to take years to be hammered out. Could you expand a bit about what you see as the biggest opportunities for improvement regarding infrastructure?
Rep. McClellan: Yeah, I mean, I touched on a little bit of it, and it’s things people don't think about. But when you think about when our highways, our bridges, were built, and, you know, thought about how long they would last. We've got to revisit those because heat affects concrete. And so the degradation of bridges or roads is happening faster than we expected. Now, the infrastructure bill gives us the ability to invest in improving that infrastructure. But there's also the historic investments in addressing climate change overall, in investing in utility infrastructure that helps with that transition. So in both ways, it's critically important legislation.
Dan: Speaking about infrastructure, you've made the Mountain Valley Pipeline a priority of yours since you've been in Congress. And for example, last summer, you and several other members of the Virginia delegation submitted an amicus brief to the Fourth Circuit. And you talked about in that amicus brief, you talked about a lot of things, but including ensuring that voices are heard, especially voices that might be I think, the words were “where there's imposed harm” on Virginia families and communities. I'm curious what you're hearing from your constituents in the fourth district about that project. And what are those voices? And what are they saying and why is it so important that they're heard, as that as that moves forward?
Rep. McClellan: Well, I mean, first of all, they've been loud for a very long time. They've opposed the project from the beginning, all over Virginia. And I think back, you know, almost a decade ago, hearing people raise the concern that by the time they found out that the pipeline was happening, it was so far down the road that they had no input. Which is another reason why environmental justice is so important to me, because I hear that time and time again. And what they feared, we're starting to see. And that is impacts on drinking water. And, of course, just the impact on the community where the pipeline is being built and on the land out there. And so they're still pretty upset, not only about the pipeline, per se, but the precedent that it sets that Congress says, “We're gonna just bypass our our permitting process and all of the public notification and comment period that goes along with it, and just by legislative fiat, say this is going to happen.” And what does that say for future projects? And I think it's really important that communities that will bear the brunt of the building of a project be brought in in the beginning, not only so they can voice their opposition, but I mean, even it's in the business's best interest, because I can think of other projects where it's like, if you had brought the community in from the beginning, they could tell you, you are likely to be building on an African burial ground, you are likely to be building on sacred land for our Indigenous tribes. And it's a lot easier to address that at the beginning of the process than when you're digging shovels in the ground.
Dan: Yeah, that idea of bringing people in. We did a briefing a few years ago about coastal resilience in Louisiana. And there was a panelist he's a church elder his name is Donald Bogan, I talked about this anecdote quite a bit, because it really stuck with me. But he said that they were talking about a project that was moving forward in the community engagement. And he said, what made this different was that he was asked what he thought before the decision was made. And I was like, Oh, actually, okay. Now I understand.
Rep. McClellan: Which so many of us take for granted, like, of course, you're gonna do that. But unfortunately, in many communities, the people who are least equipped to make their voice heard that's exactly where these projects go.
Dan: So environmental justice is something that was important to you. It's important to lots of lots of us who are tracking the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act and the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, implementation. There are also sort of standalone, if you will, environmental justice bills, and one of those is the Environmental Justice for All Act. And you're a big proponent of that bill. How would that legislation, if it were enacted, improve our ability to build the necessary infrastructure for the decarbonize clean energy economy that we all think we need to have?
Rep. McClellan: Yeah, well, first, I need to pay homage to my predecessor, who the bill is named for, A. Donald McEachin, who we worked very closely together, when both of us were in the legislature and these issues were important to him then a couple of different ways. One, we just talked about making sure that that in the permitting process under NEPA, you are creating a more robust, environmentally just comment period and bringing that input in in that consultation at the beginning of the process, and then strengthening the Civil Rights Act so that if a project has a disproportionate impact on a protected community under the Civil Rights Act, that they have, can bring you first of all, that that disparate impact is recognized as a civil rights act violation, and to making sure that they have the ability to bring a lawsuit, to enforce civil rights acts are two big, big pieces of that legislation that are critically important.
Dan: I'm curious about sort of the idea of health disparities. And you know, one of the impacts of these types of projects is that they can cause adverse health impacts for sure. As you're working to build climate resilience for communities in Virginia and across the country, how does the issue of health disparities and health impacts, how does that inform your thinking?
Rep. McClellan: It is critically important to think through not only how do we redress the harm that has caused these disproportionate impacts, but how do we keep it from happening going forward? And when you look, whether it's a city like Richmond, decisions as simple as where are we putting projects and tearing down trees and how is that increasing? You know, areas that are already facing higher temperatures as temperatures are rising, or you know, again, Hopewell, Charles City County are two areas where you have high incidences of asthma. That is not a coincidence when you have facilities in those areas that are contributing to air pollution. And so I think we're we need to make sure that whether it's siting decisions, whether it is building decisions, building codes, that that we're looking at, what is the impact, what we are doing—could be as simple as building a road—what is the impact of what we are doing going to have on the community that we're going through? Where these are decisions on top of decisions that were made over decades that didn't take that into account, and has led to some pretty poor health effects for those communities.
Alison: As a relatively new member of Congress, we're really curious to hear about what it's been like to get to know some of your colleagues. In particular, you have prioritized working on a bipartisan basis, including within the Virginia delegation. Are there some issues where you've found it easier to build bridges?
Rep. McClellan: Yes, there are. I mean, there's some we know we just don't talk about. And even with, with climate change and climate resiliency, it's all sometimes it's about the language you use, I think Republicans tend? Well, some tend to be skeptical that that climate change is a result of human activity at all, I don't waste my breath time trying to convince them, but they are concerned about sea level rise, or they are concerned about how our rise how are we going to counter the effects of rising temperatures on the health of our constituents. So those are areas you may not agree on how to address the cause. But you do agree more readily on how do we address the effects? So one example is, I have a soil carbon sequestration bill, that is very bipartisan, because we both Democrats and Republicans are focused on if we can figure out ways to streamline your research around how to address carbon in the soil. That's a win win, because it helps reduce that carbon getting into the atmosphere and, and exacerbating climate change. But it also helps our farmers to address you know, what's happening in the soil, and how can they, in some cases, have best practices to avoid increasing their carbon footprint. So that's one example where even on an issue that on its face is very partisan, there are there's room for bipartisan cooperation.
Alison: We recently just had a podcast guest who works at a vineyard talk about how soil health is so important for resilience. So that's actually a really nice segue into this next question. So as Dan mentioned, you are on the Science Space and Technology Committee, which has jurisdiction over energy and environmental research. How have you used your position in that committee in that committee to advance climate resilience?
Rep. McClellan: A couple of ways. I mean, one, I'm really focused on making sure overall, that the STEM workforce is diverse. And when you have a diverse workforce STEM workforce, you're more likely to think about environmental justice issues, because you have people from those communities, who are now you know, have a seat at the table. So that's, that's one way and then I alluded to it earlier, but but looking at, you know, the making sure that we are highlighting and facilitating partnerships, like VCU in my district, the Science Museum and NASA to create heat maps for the city so that you can say, all right, where are their pockets of heat? And how that will be exacerbated by climate change? And what can we do in our planning process to help alleviate those or partnerships with NASA, and their tempo project to help identify the effects of climate change at a very granular level so that at some point, you can get a forecast just like you get a weather forecasts on your phone, you can look and say, oh, like there's likely to be either pollution or or increased temperature here. It'd be fascinating to get that sort of real time forecasts. And that's only possible through the work that NASA is doing with tempo. So those are a couple of examples of what we're doing.
Dan: We had a briefing a couple of weeks ago, and Representative Sorensen joined us, of course, he's a meteorologist. And that briefing was all about advanced weather forecasting. And we had a panelist specifically talking about how AI can be used to improve, you know, sort of physics based modeling. And how do we get those exactly what you just said, these new types of forecasts new information that maybe people hadn't thought of before, but actually have a big impact on how they go about their days. So this has been a real treat, I would like to just say, thanks so much. Thank you for talking with Alison and me today about your time in Congress and your priorities. And as a former staff person, I would also like to say thanks to your great staff, who helped make the connection, we really, really appreciate it, it's been a real delight to work with them. And if there's anything else you'd like to say, to wrap us up on, you can have the last word, but thanks so much. This was really fun.
Rep. McClellan: Well, thank you. You know, I think just to say, it's been very interesting, transitioning from the state legislature here to Congress, focusing on addressing climate change, because it really takes everybody it is not something that government alone can do. But government plays in a critically important role. But we've got to partner with our state and local governments, we've got to partner with the business community, we've got to partner with the nonprofit community higher ed, because everybody has an impact on on the environment and on climate. And everybody's got to be part of the solution. But now I see, as a member of Congress, not only am I in a position to help address that through policy, but being a convener to bring all those people together. And so I think that's a part of the job a lot of people don't focus on, but I found pretty exciting.
Dan: That’s a perfect place to leave it. Thanks so much. And good luck.
Well, Alison, that was a real treat. It was so much fun to talk to Representative McClellan about her work so far in Congress. I think one thing that was very interesting to learn more about talking with her was how her experience before Congress really informs her work in Congress, she spent time in the Virginia General Assembly, and she, you know, grew up outside of Richmond, she knows her district, and now she's able to bring all of that sort of state level experience and community level experience to Congress, you know, every member of Congress travels a different route to get there. And it was really, really interesting to hear how representative McClellan sees her work, also such a great staff to work with. And I'm really optimistic that we'll have more opportunities to work with our office in the future, it was really, really fun to get to know her a little bit.
Alison: You know, I have to admit, I keep thinking about Jennifer McClellan as new to the policy arena, because she's new to Congress, but really, she's been in the game for decades at the state level. And I think that's so important, because that's gotten her so much experience that she can now use in her many years ahead of her hopefully, at the federal level. So really excited to see what she works on next. And we talked a little bit before about how Virginia is diverse geographically. But I think it's also important to remember that Virginia is diverse on the political spectrum as well. I grew up in Alexandria, it's pretty liberal in the north part. And then I had family in Martinsville. So traveling to the south, quite opposite cultures between the two cities that are both in the same state. But I think that despite different cultures, one thing that all Virginians can agree on is that the state is beautiful, and it's worth saving both landscape and the people definitely worth protecting from climate change. If you want to learn more about EESI’s work on climate resilience, head to our website at eesi.org. Also follow us on social media @eesionline for all of our recent updates. The Climate Conversation is published as a supplement to our bi-weekly newsletter, Climate Change Solutions. Go to eesi.org/signup to subscribe. Thanks for joining us and see you next time.
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